Curse

Lorekeeper · Apr 09, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Or maybe people playing Mo/Me are all old-school players who don't want to give up their fountain of energy, while everyone else moves on to Mo/E?

if it aint broke why fix it?

if you are a follower of fotm and trends by all means use the inferior gole because its the newest trend in GvG... but like the above poster said... those that shine in pvp are the ones who think outside the box and use skills to their potential. The dominance of Gole in GvG does not translate to its viability in HA... if you notice... lots of GvG monks who are used to running Gole who play in teams who are well versed in damage mitigation... CAN run gole to very good effect. HOWEVER... the majority of HA players rely on their builds to mitigate damage which means unless your builds include defense, Gole just wont work. And dont forget, GvG monks are very used to dealing with low energy situations and using gole... this does not mean the average HA monk will be able to emulate this. The sooner HA monks realise this the better.

theres nothing wrong with channeling why use anything else....

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 09, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

I know, that was my point. The people that still run mo/me have the brains to recognize a bad meta, and use something else, indicating that they probably have the brains to be a lot better at whatever they do than the stupid person following the meta.

EDIT: Wow this thing took like 5 minutes to post, it was directed at ssv.

As for kiba, I dunno who you were even directing your post at...

Konqq · Apr 09, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

I see all this talk about channeling being bad because it places you into bad positions.

This is because you are not good at using channeling, plain and simple. If you run into a pack of enemies to farm energy and you die because of it... that is your mistake and not the mistake of the skill channeling.
Lorekeeper

That pretty much sums up the main reason people run GOLE... it makes
e-management easier, but less effective. Channeling takes skill to use.

Glyph of lesser energy: 30 energy/minute maximum.

Channeling can give you way more than that easily... if you use it right.

kosh · Apr 09, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I was actually stating two things: 1.) the average mo/e IS a scrub from what I've seen, they think they can monk cause they think it's good e management and they don't have to pay attention while using channeling. 2.) they run out of energy under heavy pressure.

wow that sad.

you come as pretend to ask what is better Gole or channeling,but for over this entire thread you just say Gole suck and only scrubs use it..lol

and thats after you have repeatably you have said that monk and front line is no problem.

i stop listening to you after that.

i use Gole for my e mengment, if you dont know when to use it its your problem, not ours.

channeling force you to be in the front whice mean you in bad postion.
and what was that in kill count??? lol go right head put your in on the alter with channeling and will see how long you will last.

good.

why do people feel the urge to to open new thread, ask a qustion, get answers, and if they dont like the answers they call ppl scrubs?

but hey.. i dont need to positioning my self i got a sword and a shield on my monk, i can kill stuff.

bhavv · Apr 09, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Channeling is better as a lod infuser, since infuse should be your only 10e skill and you really cant hit gole before you infuse, gole is better on a prot, especially with aegis.

I dont like channeling because im usually kiting and avoiding opponents rather then standing near them all to trigger channeling. And yes, standing 'In the area' of the oppenents is standing too close. I want to give auspicious incantation a try at some point with aegis, but I think gole is still better as it doesnt hurt recharge.

BTW any monk that isnt kiting and/or is standing near oppenents is a noob/scrub, Ok? Tyvm.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 09, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Next time, try reading my posts, and then you would see that what you just posted is a load of BS and that's not what I was actually saying.

I could not understand some of your points due to grammar and spelling mistakes "channeling force you to be in the front whice mean you in bad postion.
and what was that in kill count??? lol go right head put your in on the alter with channeling and will see how long you will last."

The only legitimate reason I somewhat agree with for running GoLE that I've seen so far is that you can hide behind walls vs. paragon or ranger spike, but if they're any good, you will run out of energy that way.

Some people also seem to be implying that if you are using channeling, you cannot kite to mitigate damage: this is far from true.

Lorekeeper · Apr 09, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

there is nothing wrong with being near opponents... in HA being near opponents is unavoidable. In fact the energy gains from channeling make being near opponents quite attractive!

i can monk to high standards using channeling... i can stand next to a fire ele if he is busy nuking my team mates. If he decides to nuke me of course i will move away! But the fact that i am near him should make no difference to his decision to attack me or not. Whether i am outside spell casting range or adjacent to opponents as a monk matters not in the chances of me being a target.

Good players who tab through enemy teams will find monks no matter where they are.

C-space players of course will target the closest person to them, and of course if you are a monk it would be bad to stand next to players who sole method of target acquisition is to C-Space.

But channeling does not mean no kiting. In fact channeling promotes kiting and mobility. I rarely stand still when i monk. i am constantly kiting, no matter if im being attacked or not. If i need to heal ill stop and heal. On my travels while kiting i will check my energy levels and any potential spots where i can quickly boost my energy. Channeling requires a constant mindset. Yes its difficult and adds to a monks already packed workload. But if you can run it, i really encourage you to do so.

So if i can do it, and if many other monks can do it, its possible. With practice and patience you will also be able to do it.

stop posting how bad channeling is when its pretty clear it works for some players. The only thing we are justified in saying is whether we personally like to run something or not, if you personally prefer not to run it, please just admit its because its too difficult for you rather than saying that channeling is worse than Gole.

difficult does not equal bad
easy does not equal good.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 09, 2007, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

there is nothing wrong with being near opponents... in HA being near opponents is unavoidable...

i can monk to high standards using channeling... i can stand next to a fire ele if he is busy nuking my team mates. If he decides to nuke me of course i will move away! But the fact that i am near him should make no difference to his decision to attack me or not. Whether i am outside spell casting range or adjacent to opponents as a monk matters not in the chances of me being a target.

Good players who tab through enemy teams will find monks no matter where they are...
But channeling does not mean no kiting. In fact channeling promotes kiting and mobility... Channeling requires a constant mindset. Yes its difficult and adds to a monks already packed workload. But if you can run it, i really encourage you to do so...
stop posting how bad channeling is when its pretty clear it works for some players. The only thing we are justified in saying is whether we personally like to run something or not, if you personally prefer not to run it, please just admit its because its too difficult for you rather than saying that channeling is worse than Gole.

difficult does not equal bad
easy does not equal good.

QFT (the most important parts). This man wins the thread.

Lord Natural · Apr 09, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Channeling was a no-brainer simply because of the fomer altar mechanics. Whether you were holding or not, all 3 teams were bunched together, so any monk with a clue could get 3+'s on every cast.

Now on broken and courtyard there's so much jockeying for position, that channeling isn't reliable or particularly practical for those objectives. Channeling was never fantastic on relic runs, so instead of channeling being great on 6 of the 8 maps (and most importantly hoh), it's now down to 4 of 8, which includes hoh, despite the rotating objectives.

So yeah if you compare GoLE by the numbers to oldschool altar holding, nothing beats channeling. But now that the objectives are all lamed up, GoLE can actually be more practical in some situations. I still prefer channeling, just for the sake of hoh, but I take a secondary e skill now such as p drain for those maps like kill count where you'll probably be taking heavy pressure but can't exactly charge in to the front as a monk.

ZenRgy · Apr 09, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

The core monks I ran with ran GoLE for it's help with our Aegis chain and prot/spirit bond, it seemed to allow them (when we held) to move to go to more out of the way places to keep the ghost up (during King of the hill) and maintain energy in relic runs/capture point where you're not always surrounded by an enemy/or enemies.

I prefer GoLE in this meta over channeling, if altars were holding channeling would be more viable. One thing I do like about channeling is it allows you to bring hex breaker which can help.

Gustin · Apr 09, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

shatter enchantment = no channeling

i've seen a lot of mesmers & necros that are enchant removal happy on monks, esspecially when thumpers and wars are pounding on them. channeling doesn't do you a lot of good if it's stripped away.

and GoLE is still really good when paired with ZB. Was better before the nerf but, you're still netting a nice energy gain as long as you meet the conditional part of ZB.

Sunbear · Apr 09, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustin

shatter enchantment = no channeling

i've seen a lot of mesmers & necros that are enchant removal happy on monks, esspecially when thumpers and wars are pounding on them. channeling doesn't do you a lot of good if it's stripped away.

and GoLE is still really good when paired with ZB. Was better before the nerf but, you're still netting a nice energy gain as long as you meet the conditional part of ZB.

Gustin, so what if channeling is shattered? in 15 seconds you get it back. Whereas, if you lose GoLE that's a 30 second recharge. If a warrior or thumper is pounding on you, you certainly are not going to have a second to cast glyph. Whereas, most monks will precast channeling.
You're implying here as if a removal of channeling is the end of the world for the monk. Its not.

But i agree with the people above, GoLE seems to fit Prot monks better whereas infusers might be better suited with channeling.
Personally, I prefer channeling, because I am constantly on the move weaving in out of the 2 front lines.

Again, it seems to be a matter of playing style. If you are more comfortable playing GoLE, then by all means, stick with it. If you are more comforatble with channeling, i see no reason why you should switch. Fundamentally, there is no mathematical way to prove that either skill is superior relative to each other.

God Apprentice · Apr 09, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Im In A Build

so good positioning is now being in the middle of everything? plololololol

If you're a monk and the other team is not stupid their melee is coming right for you. Also in the example I gave the monk had died. With Channeling up if enemies are still near you when you have rezzed you will get more energy back then Glyph. Next time read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I was actually stating two things: 1.) the average mo/e IS a scrub from what I've seen, they think they can monk cause they think it's good e management and they don't have to pay attention while using channeling. 2.) they run out of energy under heavy pressure.

Which is the point I tried to make

But as I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

I reason that Glyph is carried because of current HA mechanics having splits on the AB format, where Glyph can be an alternative.

In the end it's your choice whichever you take.

baaba · Apr 09, 2007, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Channeling and GoLE are two different things. Your monking is totally different by the way you use your energy management skill.

Channeling

Advantage:

You get more energy from Channeling than GoLE. If you use it right and your position is good, you can spam your skills like no tomorrow.

Disadvantage:

You need to put attributes points toward Inspiration.
You are risking your life by using Channeling because you have to run into group in order to gain energy. You also risk getting your enchantment removed.

GoLE

Advantage:

You can stay far back to avoid being spike. All you need to do is remember to click on GoLE because it is not an enchantment so it can only be distracted but not removed.

Disadvantage:

Sometimes you will have no time to use GoLE because your teammates are getting constant damages. Also, sometimes you wasted your GoLE on 5 energy skills because someone or you are getting spike. The energy you saved is actually not a whole lot compare to Channeling.

They actually nerf too much on GoLE. If you do the math, it really suck on energy management but the mobility that the skill gives you to stay far back is a plus.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 09, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Some people also seem to be implying that if you are using channeling, you cannot kite to mitigate damage: this is far from true.

Learn to read, IMO.
I said Channeling forces you to be closer to their damage dealers, and therefore gives you less time to prekite and preprot when they suddenly decide to come for you. My belief is that this will actually hurt your energy management in the long run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Whether i am outside spell casting range or adjacent to opponents as a monk matters not in the chances of me being a target.

Of course it does. If you're overextended into their backline, they will know it will take you at least 5 seconds before you're in a 'safe zone' again. This means 5 seconds of big damage on your head. I don't see how that would NOT matter in target choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbear

Whereas, most monks will precast channeling.

Precast it every 30 seconds? yeah.

Gimme Money Plzthx, in the end it's your choice and I think I know what your choice is because you haven't listened to anything. In fact, the only thing you did in this thread is saying Mo/E's are scrubs. I think that's a shame, because it really is (could have been) an interesting discussion between two excellent options.

kosh · Apr 09, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Next time, try reading my posts, and then you would see that what you just posted is a load of BS and that's not what I was actually saying.

I could not understand some of your points due to grammar and spelling mistakes "channeling force you to be in the front whice mean you in bad postion.
and what was that in kill count??? lol go right head put your in on the alter with channeling and will see how long you will last."

The only legitimate reason I somewhat agree with for running GoLE that I've seen so far is that you can hide behind walls vs. paragon or ranger spike, but if they're any good, you will run out of energy that way.

Some people also seem to be implying that if you are using channeling, you cannot kite to mitigate damage: this is far from true.

ok il drop the Gole vs channeling for a sec.

lets see:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

OK, why are people still using GoLE instead of channeling? I mean, I didn't think it was very good pre-nerf, but now it doesn't take a mathematical genius to figure out that it sucks, and yet most monks use it. It seems to me that the monks that use it cannot keep their energy up and/or just plain suck. Why are some things "meta" when they cannot compete with other skills?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

You also have to run 10e skills to take full advantage of glyph, or 15e skills before the nerf... I think (and thought before the nerf) that channeling is better, I just want some insight as to why people even THINK GoLE is better, even though whatever people say won't change my mind. Coincidentally, every single monk I've seen that runs glyph sucks and/or their team drops super fast, depending on how many monks on that team run it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Er, let me rephrase. I meant to go ahead and assume you have a decent/good team when running it. I see a lot of replies saying GoLE is easier, which it definitely is, which attracts crappy monks in addition to it being a poor skill, which leads to instant death. The way I see it, with a good team, your monks can afford the extra energy being up front, because even if they're in back, the enemy will almost certainly come at them at some point in the match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Well obviously you don't have to spend all your time on the frontline... sigh, guess it's an impasse. I really don't see/have any problems with using channeling or being in the frontline, but all the mo/e's I see suck and can't do their job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I was actually stating two things: 1.) the average mo/e IS a scrub from what I've seen, they think they can monk cause they think it's good e management and they don't have to pay attention while using channeling. 2.) they run out of energy under heavy pressure.

should i go on?

if u want people to listen to you and treat you as an adult, act like one.

again, you didnt come here to ask what is better, you posted your thread to say this: all monks that use Gole suck, im leet im using channeling.

here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

thats you.
i dont even consider most of your posts becuse beside saying that your leet you are not saying anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Actually, I've seen a trend of mo/me players being a lot better than mo/e players. Maybe it's because they have a brain and can think outside the meta, which means they have a brain to use for other things like being a better monk too, or maybe channeling is just that much better. I dunno, but I've definitely noticed that the average mo/me is a LOT better than the average mo/e.

outside the meta? wow did you came up with putting channeling on a monk all by yourself??? wow im surprised no one ever thought of that first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Gimme Money Plzthx, in the end it's your choice and I think I know what your choice is because you haven't listened to anything. In fact, the only thing you did in this thread is saying Mo/E's are scrubs. I think that's a shame, because it really is (could have been) an interesting discussion between two excellent options.

qft.in the end its all about you,

but dont try to come here and trash people/skill/build.
we dont need it, we dont care.

Mental Leteci · Apr 09, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

You people played so much with GoLE that you forgot to play with channeling. Yes, you need to be close to them to get full use of channeling, but that means you'll get at least +3 or +4 energy back (with the meta in HA it gets to +8) and with that kind of energy return you can spam skills so prot monk should be preproting targets (especially monks) so they're not that fragile in the middle of the opposite team.

Div · Apr 09, 2007, 10:10 AM // 10:10

GoLE is still a really predominant skill in GvGs because:

1. It returns good energy without having to be as close to enemies, allowing for easier positioning in an arena where frontline/midline/backline is more established than in HA.
2. Your only 15 energy skill should be aegis, and the second spell you cast with it (prot spirit, spirit bond, etc.) will still be free, so the nerf really isn't TOO bad.
3. GoLE doesn't require any attribute investment, which means you'll have 2-3 higher attribute levels in your second main attribute line.

jana_the_stranger · Apr 09, 2007, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbear

Other things to consider, what other skills can you use from a /Me or a /E secondary. With /E, its pretty much, GoLE. Most of the other skills are not worth it.

sacrafice + infuse

if you have ooa or grenth dervish, channeling is stripped of so easy

but it all depends of your build + teambuild and how you can handle your energy

ZenRgy · Apr 09, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Oh yeah, another point I'd like to raise.

Mo/Me has the advantage of bringing [skill]Auspicious Incantation[/skill] which doesn't totally blow and works well with Aegis now.

Note : Skill has a much lower recharge penalty than stated.